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They say there's a book inside everybody. Let the book out with Admanya blogs. Vent your feelings about anything that pops into your head. It might be rocket science or your neighbour's cat. Start now! Its easy and fun! Blog US commission: Pakistan schools teach Hindu hatredPosted by bigman on 18 December 2011 READ: 469 
NOTE TO "THE POLITICALLY CORRECT" : DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT UNLESS YOU FIND THE SOURCE LEGITIMATE
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/pak-schools-teach-intolerance-of-hinduism-us-report-148232 ISLAMABAD Text books in Pakistani schools foster prejudice and intolerance of Hindus and other religious minorities, while most teachers view non-Muslims as "enemies of Islam," according to a study by a U.S. government commission released Wednesday. The findings indicate how deeply ingrained hardline Islam is in Pakistan and help explain why militancy is often supported, tolerated or excused in the country. "Teaching discrimination increases the likelihood that violent religious extremism in Pakistan will continue to grow, weakening religious freedom, national and regional stability, and global security," said Leonard Leo, the chairman of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. Pakistan was created in 1947 as a homeland for the Muslims of South Asia and was initially envisaged as a moderate state where minorities would have full rights. But three wars with mostly Hindu India; state support for militants fighting Soviet-rule in Afghanistan in the 1980s; and the appeasement of hardline clerics by weak governments seeking legitimacy have led to a steady radicalization of society. Religious minorities and those brave enough to speak out against intolerance have often been killed, seemingly with impunity, by militant sympathizers. The commission warned that any significant efforts to combat religious discrimination, especially in education, would "likely face strong opposition" from hardliners. The study reviewed more than 100 textbooks from grades 1-10 from Pakistan's four provinces. Researchers in February this year visited 37 public schools, interviewing 277 students and teachers, and 19 madrases, where they interviewed 226 students and teachers. The Islamization of textbooks began under the U.S.-backed rule of army dictator Gen. Zia-ul-Haq, who courted Islamists to support his rule. In 2006, the government announced plans to reform the curriculum to address the problematic content, but that has not been done, the study said. Pakistan's Islamist and right-wing polity would likely oppose any efforts to change the curriculum, and the government has shown no desire to challenge them on the issue. The report found systematic negative portrayals of minorities, especially Hindus and, to a lesser extent, Christians. Hindus make up more than 1 percent of Pakistan's 180 million people, while Christians represent around 2 percent. Some estimates put the numbers higher. There are also even smaller populations of Sikhs and Buddhists. "Religious minorities are often portrayed as inferior or second-class citizens who have been granted limited rights and privileges by generous Pakistani Muslims, for which they should be grateful," the report said. "Hindus are repeatedly described as extremists and eternal enemies of Islam whose culture and society is based on injustice and cruelty, while Islam delivers a message of peace and brotherhood, concepts portrayed as alien to the Hindu." The books don't contain many specific references to Christians, but those that "that do exist seem generally negative, painting an incomplete picture of the largest religious minority in Pakistan," the report said. Attempts to reach Pakistan's education minister were not successful. The textbooks make very little reference to the role played by Hindus, Sikhs and Christians in the cultural, military and civic life of Pakistan, meaning a "a young minority student will thus not find many examples of educated religious minorities in their own textbooks," the report said. "In most cases historic revisionism seems designed to exonerate or glorify Islamic civilization, or to denigrate the civilizations of religious minorities," the report said. "Basic changes to the texts would be needed to present a history free of false or unsubstantiated claims which convey religious bias. "The researchers also found that the books foster a sense that Pakistan's Islamic identity is under constant threat. "The anti-Islamic forces are always trying to finish the Islamic domination of the world," read one passage from a social studies text being taught to Grade 4 students in Punjab province, the country's most populated. "This can cause danger for the very existence of Islam. Today, the defense of Pakistan and Islam is very much in need." The report states that Islamic teachings and references were commonplace in compulsory text books, not just religious ones, meaning Pakistan's Christians, Hindus and other minorities were being taught Islamic content. It said this appeared to violate Pakistan's constitution, which states that students should not have to receive instruction in a religion other than their own. The attitudes of the teachers no doubt reflect the general intolerance in Pakistan a 2011 Pew Research Center study found the country the third most intolerant in the world but because of the influence they have, they are especially worrisome. Their views were frequently nuanced and sometimes contradictory, according to the study. While many advocated respectful treatment of religious minorities, this was conditional upon the attitudes of the minorities, "which appeared to be in question," the report said. The desire to proselytize was cited as one of the main motivations for kind treatment. According to the study, more than half the public school teachers acknowledged the citizenship of religious minorities, but a majority expressed the opinion that religious minorities must not be allowed to hold positions of power, in order to protect Pakistan and Muslims. While many expressed the importance of respecting the practices of religious minorities, simultaneously 80 percent of teachers viewed non-Muslims, in some form or another, as "enemies of Islam."
Comments (34) RP_Singh wrote on 18 December, 2011
Madrasa education is highly dangerous to world peace and stability and should be banned. Yes, Hindu hatred is Pakistan's government agenda No. 1 and Kashmir insurgency is just a manifestation. India government is also ignoring the Madrasas for political compulsion, Sonia Maino just wants Muslim votes to rule India, she cares adman for minority welfare just wants votes.Madrasa education is not only harming other community but also the Muslim community themselves as they are learning some medieval barbaric practices that makes them a fanatic.
lady_macbeth wrote on 18 December, 2011
We can always update the syllabus to make education a wholesome deal my friend. Criticality is good but should not be led to destructive threshold.
Khair wrote on 20 December, 2011
There are many madrasahs in all the countries of the sub-continent that are not regulated in any way, so they make up their own curriculum and there is no oversight on them whatsoever. These are the problematic ones. It is a challenge for the governments as there are no easy solutions. There are those madrasahs as well that provide education to thousands of children from poor families who could never afford such education. These madrasahs provide not only religious education but also modern science and technology.
The key factor in my opinion, is that governance is weak in all the countries of the sub-continent - more or less. This is why we see unregulated activities in their social, religious and political life. One glaring example of lack of regulation is that people can virtually say anything without any concern of consequences - something that we see quite often even on this forum. In many countries, this would be unthinkable. They would exercise care in expressing their opinion. Blackrose wrote on 20 December, 2011
Khiar@ Your statement is true.Your statement"glaring example of lack of regulation is that people can virtually say anything without any concern of consequences - something that we see quite often even on this forum. In many countries, this would be unthinkable." It is unthinkable mainly in countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan who follow certain ideology and sometimes in certain countries who practice this for minority appeasement.
Blackrose wrote on 20 December, 2011
A few days back I was watching a TV programmer aired on a Bengali channel. If I can correctly recall, the topic was on adding the Term Madrasa with one University in West Bengal. All the participants were Muslims. One of them was an eminent Muslim academician .There was one Moulove from a Madrasa and one Muslim lady and a student. That student literally challenged that Moulavi on relevance of Madrasa education in modern times.All arguments of that Moulavi were literally torn apart. That eminant professor also was highly vocal against adding the term Madrasa with that University and according to him" Please ask a madrasa pass out and a teacher who had passed out from non madrasa institution like Hare/ Hindu school to take a class on any subject and the qualitative difference would be felt". That student was highly annoyed for the fact that degrees awarded by Madrasas have no value in the job market and and they would not get a job in a good organization.
cosmicbomber wrote on 20 December, 2011
@ everyone, interesting discussion but does this topic worth valuable time? I think the best way to regulate madrasas is to ban them and completely derecognize madrasa education. Government should not waste taxpayers money to regulate junk.
Khair wrote on 21 December, 2011
If the best way to regulate junk is to ban them, then I must say the government (or at least Admanya) should ban many of those who write here because frankly it is a disgrace, and while we are on the subject of education, let me also state that these people's expressions gives us a fair idea of the quality of the education THEY received.
Khair wrote on 21 December, 2011
BLACKROSE, you completely misunderstood what I said about it being "untinkable". What I was saying is that in many countries (I thought it was apparent I was talking about the west) it is unthinkable that people can come on forums and podiums and say whatever they like without any fear of consequences. We regularly see people doing that in ALL countries of the sub-continent, not just people on forums such as these, but people who are in responsible positions like political leaders and journalists.
In Saudi Arabia you can't do that as everything is controlled by the state. Pakistan is a bad example too as people there can make all sorts of irresponsible comments just as they can in India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. In the west there is freedom of speech but there are consequences if you abuse that freedom. Khair wrote on 21 December, 2011
@BLACKROSE, I gather you are saying that a graduate of Hare Hindu school system would be qualitatively much better than a graduate of madrasah, am I right? I presume you are speaking from first hand experience as a graduate of Hare Hindu school yourself, is that correct? Then no one needs to have any concern because we are assured of getting a quality product such as BLACKROSE by sending Hindu AND Muslim children to Hare Hindu. But the faculty and alumni of Hare Hindu must surely be holding their breath knowing what a fine job our BLACKROSE is doing promoting Hare Hindu to the country and what a fine example he is presenting of what he learnt there.
Khair wrote on 21 December, 2011
On a more serious note, the matter of educaton (general or religious) is very complex in developing countries. Particularly in the sub-continent, the governments are weak in governance but strong in their rule. What that means is that a lot of social services (and education is one of them) are unofficially outsourced to the private sector. That happens out of necessity as the governments are not in a position to fulfil this need. What they could do is have a decent and fair regulatory framework, but there is very low priority in such matters, hence the weak governance.
I could go on ... but I'll stop here with one final observation: it is good to talk about all sorts of issues in the society, but if people can't discuss something without being emotional and pointing fingers at others, then it is better not to talk about it. Blackrose wrote on 22 December, 2011
Khair@ That Hare school/Hindu school related statement was not my brain child. That programme was aired on one Bengali channel and that comparison was done by an eminent Academician who happened to carry a muslim name.You have not understood the whole matter, only wrote some meaningless sentences. I don't know whether you are an Indian or a Bangladeshi. If you are an Indian and a Bengali then you would be knowing that Hare school, Hindu School, Scotish church etc are very famous educational institutions and their alumni lists carry some great names both from Hindu and Muslim community. In that programme all participants were Muslim and the topic was a debatable one which had divided the educated muslim community into two parts. some were against using the term Madrasa with the name of that institution and others were in favour of it.If people from your own community express certain opinion, observation then why do you feel so much irritated and start writing meaningless comments ?
Khair wrote on 22 December, 2011
@BLACKROSE, the problem with people like you is that you cannot carry on a discussion without trying to identify the person you are arguing with. This is a cheap and lazy way of engaging in a discussion. It just shows you are not confident to have a discussion on its merits.
Where, shall I ask, have I taken a side in your prejudiced discussions? If you missed my point, let me shoot straight then. My points are intended to show the ignorance of people like you who write with their prejudices clearly showing. None of my writings are intended to promote a community or religious group nor are they meant to oppose any group, other than the groups who are steeped in prejudice and bigotry. Lastly, I'll paste the the same line here again that was in my last post and which you must have missed: "it is good to talk about all sorts of issues in the society, but if people can't discuss something without being emotional and pointing fingers at others, then it is better not to talk about it." Blackrose wrote on 22 December, 2011
Khair@ whatever you had mentioned above( your last comment) got reflected in your remark dated 21 December where you had attacked Black rose for no reasons.Your statement"But the faculty and alumni of Hare Hindu .... example he is presenting of what he learnt there." is a well directed personal attack.You and jam Ali share a common trait of attacking somebody, but unable to digest any criticism. What prejudice you are talking of? We were discussing about an issue. It is you who expressed emotion, anguish.In every discussion the person discussing expresses his views, ideology. Hence it is very natural that the person would also get involved. There is no scope of remaining ambivalent.An insensitive person only argues with air without identifying the person whom he is arguing with.
Khair wrote on 22 December, 2011
@BLACKROSE, your prejudices show up very clearly in all your writings, not just this one, and I doubt whether you are even aware of it because you seem to have made it a part of your personal fabric.
The only thing I may be guilty of is harshly exposing those who exhibit their prejudices and bigotry at the expense of rational discussion. As for you BLACKROSE, you may not realise this, but you have more in common with the likes of JAM ALI, DANNYM and little BIGMAN than you would imagine. cosmicbomber wrote on 23 December, 2011
Khair, Hare school and Hindu school are 2 different renowned schools of Calcutta and many a famous personalities have studied in these schools - the name Hindu has nothing to do with Hinduism, it is not a Hindu madrasa as you may be thinking! They follow they standard syllabus like any other schools under WB Madhyamik and Higher Secondary board.
Blackrose wrote on 23 December, 2011
Admanya is honored because the 21ts century version of Sigmund Freud in the name of Mr Khair has joined us!!!!He can incorrectly read everybody's psychology!!!He has expertise in a subject called "Bigotry". His "Hare Hindu" is an ideal example of his vast knowledge on Bengal's educational system.It is better to know everything of something rather than a little bit of everything.
Many calcacians are eagerly waiting for a Hare hindu school( which does not exist as of today). And if you are kind enough in pumping fund from Australia then I would definitely lay the foundation stone along with my Friends Jam Ali, Big Man and Danny M and you would be our guest of honor. There we can have a "Khair Chair" of comparative bigotry in the name of you as originator of this subject and would have reservations for meritorious students under your sole discretion. Khair wrote on 23 December, 2011
@BLACKROSE, I don't pretend to know much about Bengal's educational system let alone be an expert on it. Whatever gave you that idea? I would be very happy if Bengal had an enviable educational system but I get the feeling I might be disappointed if I learnt a bit more about it, knowing that Bengal is at least twenty years behind most of the states in western, central and southern India, and it gives me no joy to say this.
I also do not know anything about Hare Hindu and I don't think it was the subject of the discussion here anyway. You brought it up in a way that showed your ignorance (and of course bigotry). My reference to Hare Hindu was simply to highlight that, not to caste aspersion on Hare Hindu something which you tried to insinuate. It is good to see you are now keen to eliminate bigotry. What is calcacians by the way? Blackrose wrote on 26 December, 2011
Khair@ Again you have taken the wrong route.The Hare school Hindu school topic raised in the debate was aimed at comparing two systems of education, one that is designed on the basis of instruction of the Koran and the Hadish (mainly religious, orthodox) and the other an education system that teaches science, humanities, commerce etc to the students.That discussion had nothing to do with standard of Bengal's educational system. The topic raised by Bigman was to highlight an issue which is very serious in nature and the funding to finance these institutions are sometimes from questionable sources and the course curriculum are specifically designed for some specific purpose and not always to impart proper education to the students to enable them earning their bread and butter in this highly competitive world. And this type of education might in long term bring catastrophic consequences. This in the long run would not do any good to the community also.
Khair wrote on 27 December, 2011
@COSMICBOMBER, you are presumptuous about my thoughts on Hare Hindu. I have no interest in whether it is a Hindu madrasah or any other kind. Even if it were the the equivalent of a Hindu madrasah I would have no issue with it.
The aim of what I said was at the manner in which BLACKROSE was trying to make divisive and silly statements. He used one TV programme to make sweeping comments that reflected his narrow perspective on a complex matter such as education. He then tried to interpret what I said as if I was crticising Hare Hindu not his perverted logic. Khair wrote on 27 December, 2011
@BLACKROSE, which route are you talking about? Which route is yours may I ask?
Once again, despite your pretensions I think you know that I am not opposed to criticising madrasahs. I made that quite clear in my very first post on this topic where I made strong comments about some madrasahs. You, on the other hand, tried to use one TV programme where they made comments about madrasahs and Hare Hindu to make your sweeping one-sided conclusions; and then you tried to use my response to your ignorant statements as if I was criticising Hare Hindu. What I had said essentially is that if you were a graduate of Hare Hindu, the faculty and alumni there would be proud of the quality they produced. It was a sarcastic remark aimed at you and your perverted logic - not at Hare Hindu. more ... Khair wrote on 27 December, 2011
... continued from above
As a person who takes deep interest in matters of education, the first thing I recognise is that it is an extremely complex area. Governments and policy makers are continuously challenged to provide a system of education that meets the requirements of the population. It is easier said than done, as the populations are usually not homogeneous. They consist of people representing different levels of society (in socio-economic terms) and are split up into different ethno-religious communities as well. Obviously the expectations from the system would not be the same. Policy makers have to maneouvre and negotiate through all these challenges and conflicting demands, and offer a system that is at least the least common denominator (pardon the pun). In developing countries, the governments simply do not have the resources to do it on their own so they have to rely on the private sector and that presents its own set of unique challenges in terms of regulation. ... Khair wrote on 27 December, 2011
...
While all interested debate and argue about what is right and wrong with the education system, and forward their contributions to make it better, one thing we can all do without is charge up the environment and make it even harder to have a useful discussion. One way to do that, is to ignore demands from fringe elements who see solutions in drastic terms such as ban this or ban that. Opinions must be considered, balanced and well-presented. DannyM wrote on 27 December, 2011
Khair@ good to see you talking like a philosopher.I was watching these discussions.That "wait, watch, balance", channel II diplomacy are some tools used in international diplomatic fronts not for domestic issues.The proper education system should have the following criteria
1. It should be able make good , sensible human beings ,not money earning, brute, insensitive machines. 2. It should not teach to hate fellow human beings and should be broad enough to accommodate different ideologies. 3.It should make a person to sharpen his sense of judgement and to think logically in an unbiased manner without any pre conceived prejudice. On the contrary if a system of education only implants religious diktats and lures the students to conceive, develop, nurture negative feeling towards believers of other religion then that creates problem. This educational system in the long run would spoil the future of the students. Khair wrote on 01 January, 2012
@DANNYM, the three points you noted are broad statements of principles and I can't see anyone arguing against those anywhere in the world.
The second part of your post however hints at a political position you may have towards a particular religion and there is no prize for guessing what that might be. DannyM wrote on 02 January, 2012
Khair@ Wish you and every member of your family a very happy and prosperous new year. You have been positively contributing to make this social networking site attractive, vibrant.
The second part is more important from administrative point of view to maintain law and order and peace among various different communities. And this is true for every country. Khair wrote on 13 February, 2012
@DANNYM, I can't accept, as no civilised person can, that having a political position directed at followers of a particular religion is important from an administrative point of view. This is not true for any country, certainly not true for India.
DannyM wrote on 14 February, 2012
Khair@ you have made a meaningless and ambiguous statement.What political position you are talking about? How politics come in the picture? Dannym is an apolitical person and it is not a mandatory norm that you need to have a political affiliation of a party to express your views.
Khair wrote on 15 February, 2012
@DANNYM, basically you are saying that you didn't understand what you read. Fair enough! I'll make it easier for you. First thing you do is look at the thread and see where that particular point is coming from. I'd like to take you to my post of Jan 1 which was in response to your post of Dec 27 (just a few scrolls above).
That was when I had detected your political position. You then replied to it on the 2nd Jan where you did refer to the "second part" which implies at that point you did not have any problem understanding what I meant by your "political position". I admit I took my time replying to that (simply because I only revisited this blog yesterday). So, I don't know what you are quibbling about unless it is selective amnesia on your part or an admission that the discussion has gone beyond you. (PS: I can't be blamed of thinking it might be the latter seeing that you interpret my comments as having something to do with political affiliation) bigman wrote on 24 February, 2012
pakistan takes aid from US and regards them as uncivilized and dwellers of hell fire WHEREAS India doesn't take any money from US and still thinks that USA is a sane and cultured society. Just think of the difference in mindsets. What is to be blamed if not Islamic education?
Vani wrote on 24 February, 2012
@ BIGMAN, if you have political opinions like above or questions or even religious questions there is no problem as long as you can discuss in a civil way but if you want to propagate hate then this is not the place for you. Don't consider yourself above the law. Why are you hiding behind a pseudoname? Come out in the open with your real name, photo and address and very soon the administration will put you behind the bars. You are going too far with your comments. Don't act too smart you will be in trouble.
bigman wrote on 25 February, 2012
VANI@ You defending Islam .... 'understandable'. Most Hindus do. But what makes you defend Pakistan? are you sick in your head, what hate do you see in my above comment. grow up kid.
DannyM wrote on 25 February, 2012
Bigman@ Simply from the name it is not always easy to draw conclusion on which religion the person behind the name practices. In Bangladesh lots of Muslims are there whose names are Hindu like. Because in most of the cases they were Hindus before three or four generations, then got converted.
Blasphemy laws are not applicable in India and communal discussions ( criticizing other faiths)is not illegal.It is practiced in some Islamic countries. If it were applicable then most of our politicians would have been behind the bar.Liberty of speech is honored in India. But one thing I must say is that while criticizing others, minimum decency should be maintained. Logic should be the only weapon to establish own opinion. Not personal emotion or weapons like " Bigotry" to be sprayed here and there to defend own views. Why are you taking the above mentioned criticism seriously? Do some people deserve any attention? Some people live in India, but their hearts and souls stay elsewhere. Khair wrote on 27 February, 2012
@VANI, people who talk big and dirty think that makes them big, our little BIGMAN is one such creature. Someone had said "Boro jodi hotey chao, chhoto ho tobey" (in Bengali, it means - if you want to be big/great first be small/humble). Our little friend who calls himself BIGMAN has taken the reverse approach. He is talking big and bigotry and proving to us that he is actually a tiny narrow minded creature.
These fossils of bigotry belong to the museums of yesteryears not in a forum like this. Blackrose wrote on 29 February, 2012
Khair@ I fully agree with your statement dated 28Th Feb, where you had mentioned the term" Chamcha". Yes, now this forum is full of " Chamchas" and " Chamchees" LOL!!!
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